I couldn't careless. Big deal! So a cult leader's grave get vandelized.
Maybe they even pissed on it too you never know.
i attended a week long [six day] bible student convention in johnstown, pa, just outside of pittsburgh, there was a sister from romania who wanted to visit pastor russell's grave, so we drove the 2 hours up there, the last time i was there was in 1999.
well, apparently russell'sgrave was vandalized, on the front and back of the tombstone there are these photos of russell embedded into the granite, someone decided to keep a momento and ripped them off, so there's just a hole where the pictures were.
no respect for the dead, oh well.
I couldn't careless. Big deal! So a cult leader's grave get vandelized.
Maybe they even pissed on it too you never know.
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some say god exists outside of time and space therefore he can predict the future.. any comments?
Funky,
I think it could be absurd, or it could be true, we really don't know the full reason for evil in the world.Yes it could be true, but if true would be utterly absurd. For an omnipotent being to be as incompetent as you describe would be an absurdity.
Well to someone who has a negative opinion of him it would seem absurd, "if this were true". I'm sure that before they discovered gravity the idea of the Earth being a spinning spere with people living on the side and bottom without falling off seemed egually absurd.
There quite reasonably could be an infinite number of scenerios as to why there is evil, and suffering in the world.Yes, so why out of all the available options do you pick one of the most unlikely?
It only seems most unlikely to you, not me, or else I never would have used it.
I don't see anything in the Bible that gives an absolute answer. The "story" of Job never really answers this question, it only gives different points of veiw.One point of view it gives is that God is quite happy to let the devil do whatever he likes, just for a bet.
Thats one way you can looked at it, or you might veiw it as an inspired story, beatifully poetic, that shows there is more to sufferings than meets the eye of mortal man, and that we should all seek to be pateint like Job and not ascribe evil to God. Job in the "story" BTW is never told about the "heavenly scene" found in the narative. In the "story" he is left in the dark "the Satan's"(not the devil specifically) claim in heaven before God.
BTW I think the "story"(inspired story), of Job purposefully leaves the question begging for an answer. I am of the opinion that God can not explaine it in its entirety to us very limited intelligent creatures and have it make sense, we don't have the comprehension needed at this time. I'm convinced however that he has benevolent reasons, that will work no real "lasting" hardship on us, in fact his going though what he did on earth should tell us that he isn't asking us to do anything he himself won't do, he is the "way" that we should follow.Why are you convinced of this when you have no evidence? Why do you think there must be a reason which we're not capable of understanding?
I could say the same about you too. Why are you so convinced there is not a God who created everything? You can not use "natural science" to prove or disprove God existance, true natural science can not speak with authority on this issue since it is beyond its domain. The reason I suggest for our incapability to understand God's "complete reason" for the allowance of evil, is that we can not see or know everything, therefore if the reasons are very complicated, and involves things we have no comprehension of then of coarse we would not be capable of understanding presently.
If this is the case, are you saying it's impossible for an omnipotent god to explain things to our satisfaction?
Yes and no. He can explain things but not completely, as to whether we are satisfied, that is very subjective isn't it.
Even if so, why are the explanations he does give so primitive and childish. Shouldn't he at least attempt to give us the most complex explanation we'll be able to handle instead of the risible nonsesnse about a snake and an apple?
Yes God has to stoop really quite low to comunicate to us in terms that we can grasp. From the Bible I grasp that God speaks in concepts and terms that are understandable to the people "at that time" The first couple of chapters of Genesis are given to a very primative people, and it is in "story form" it is not a scientific account written in our modern terminolgy. The purpose is to show the Isrealites "there is only one true God" and he created everything. This was a hard lesson to learn for them since they worshipped many different Gods of nature, river god, frog god, etc... Genesis 1-3 is not to be read as a historical scientific account of creation written with modern concepts, if you do you will come away with some pretty weird (fundy) and undefensible veiws that don't follow what we now know. That is not the agenda of the Bible writer, I say the Genesis is like a preamble to the Law coventant similar to other ancient documents where a King is establishing who he is(God is creater sons of men the creatures).
the wt g.b.
doesnt want jesus to come and rule the earth.
john 11:45-48.
Skally,
Thanks for the concern. I'm doing fine. I was just reading the book of John and thought about the GB and how they are like the Pharisees, they really, really don't want Jesus to come again, for I am sure the most of them know they are not what they claim to be. So I thought it would be interesting to see what comments it would generate.
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some say god exists outside of time and space therefore he can predict the future.. any comments?
Funky,
Doesn't that idea make the whole thing seem completely absurd? A god who creates prolifically but is so bad at it that he routinely has to suffer and die (even if it's only pretend) to fix the mess he keeps creating. Why wouldn't he just use his omnipotence to do it right the first time?
I think it could be absurd, or it could be true, we really don't know the full reason for evil in the world. There quite reasonably could be an infinite number of scenerios as to why there is evil, and suffering in the world. I don't see anything in the Bible that gives an absolute answer. The "story" of Job never really answers this question, it only gives different points of veiw. BTW I think the "story"(inspired story), of Job purposefully leaves the question begging for an answer. I am of the opinion that God can not explaine it in its entirety to us very limited intelligent creatures and have it make sense, we don't have the comprehension needed at this time. I'm convinced however that he has benevolent reasons, that will work no real "lasting" hardship on us, in fact his going though what he did on earth should tell us that he isn't asking us to do anything he himself won't do, he is the "way" that we should follow.
the wt g.b.
doesnt want jesus to come and rule the earth.
john 11:45-48.
The WT G.B. doesn’t want Jesus to come and rule the Earth.
John 11:45-48
45 Therefore many of the Jews that had come to Mary and that beheld what he did put faith in him; 46 but some of them went off to the Pharisees and told them the things Jesus did. 47 Consequently the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the San'he·drin together and began to say: "What are we to do, because this man performs many signs? 48 If we let him alone this way, they will all put faith in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation." 49
Many of the chief priests and Pharisees worried that if Jesus gets more people to follow him that he will cause them to revolt against Rome, to reestablish the Davidic line of Kingship over the Jews.
They feared reprisals from Rome in which they would suffer the loss of the nation and their place of authority in it. In their minds they lose either way, they lose if he is the promised Messiah or they lose if he is an impostor.
Many of these men "claimed" to be looking for the Messiah, but in their hearts most wanted no such thing.
I think that it is the same way with the majority of the G.B. They give lip service to wanting Jesus to come again. They give talks about the closeness of his coming and have WT and books written in which they give certain dates for his coming to rule the Earth, but I think the majority are not looking forward to his coming, but dreading it.
im leaning more and more towards a fully gifted creation.
i think god is so wise that when he first began "this" universe that he endowed it with tremendous organization potentiality, that would not require him to step in and guide it or help it along to produce intelligent life.. look at how scientist tell us all the elements are made in the stars, though nuclear fusion suns not only give us light and heat but also produce more complicated elements.
physicists tell us of wonderful self organization on the atomic and subatomic level.
Shameless Btttt
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some say god exists outside of time and space therefore he can predict the future.. any comments?
Setfree,
What if every thing was so easy to do and you had the power to do anything well with, no training, no effortI don't think so.Kind of like God then eh?
I mean after all God did come to Earth as a human, born helpless, into a middleclass family, had to have his diapers changed, grew up, had a difficult ministry, and was put to death on a cross. And who really know who many times he did this for other intelligent life in our universe, not to mention other universes.
i stopped by a store today to pick up a few things - forgetting completely about the big "convention" that is going on nearby.
while i was in the check out i noticed a number of people dressed up in the deli area with badges on.
so i thought to myself.........should i?
Dawn,
I liked your style, you gave them something to think about.
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some say god exists outside of time and space therefore he can predict the future.. any comments?
Now,
God allowed His Son to suffer for the ultimate good of all creation. couldn't it be possible that our temporary and momentary suffering also is allowed for our ultimate and eternal well-being?
That's the way I veiw it. Pain is sometimes very helpful, it can even draw us closer to God. I often wonder what it would be like if God just acted like our servant and granted us everything we wanted, would we feel really drawn to him? What if every one lived forever and had everything they wanted, reguardless of whether they worshipped or loved God would that type of life really be good? What if every thing was so easy to do and you had the power to do anything well with, no training, no effort, everybody was an exact copy of yourself in regards to abilities, everybody did everything well with very little effort and with out any pain? I firmly beleive any thing the Creator allows or made possible is for an entirely good reason, but being we all have long way to go to see things the way he does, some of us judge Him harshly.
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some say god exists outside of time and space therefore he can predict the future.. any comments?
Eu,
As to why He would allow suffering... I dunno. When I have the answer to that, I'll let you know.
That's the way I feel, I can only aproximate an answer. The book of Job leaves this question unsettled. I have Faith that it is a good reason and that it has love behind it. But since God is so much more inteligent that us that if he gave us the complete answer we would not understand it.
I feel Albert E. opened up our preception of time for us all and in the process, though indirectly: God at the same time for Christians.